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Placencia or Robles - or both?

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  • Profile picture for user Claudia_Reynoso
    By Claudia_Reynoso | Fri, 2009-04-10 12:33

    Hello all.

    I have found a family in my line that sometimes goes by PLACENCIA, and at other time they are registered as ROBLES.

    My 4 gg-mother is MONICA PLACENCIA, married in 1815 to JULIAN ALVARADO in Moyahua, Zacatecas.

    I found that on her children's records, she is MONICA PLACENCIA, and her father is JOSE ONOFRE PLACENCIA (her mother is JUANA MARIA DE TORRES).

    However--in her marriage record and her siblings' marriage records, they are all DE ROBLES.

    Can anyone shed light on this?

    Thank you!
    -Claudia

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    Profile picture for user arturoramos

    arturoramos

    16 years 4 months ago

    Permalink

    Maternal Surnames in Mexico

    Claudia,

    You have found an example of the beautiful confusion of the Spanish surname system that existed before the standardization of surnames introduced under the Bourbon reforms. Basically, in Spain and Spanish America, it was quite common to give children maternal surnames and sometimes even maternal grandmother's surnames (I have seen many examples of girls being named for their grandmother including her surname and thus having a different surname than all of their siblings).

    So in this case, it seems that somewhere down the line, someone could not decide which surname to use and switched back and forth (or perhaps the priest could not choose and switched back and forth). This was quite common and you will run into it more the further back you go. You should stay open to looking for both surnames. It could be that Monica's father used Placencia and Robles and therefore the records for his daughter simply matched whatever name he was using at the time.

    Of course, there are also plenty of examples where priests just "got it wrong" and confused one person for another or just put down the wrong name.

    Stuart Armstrong

    16 years 4 months ago

    Permalink

    In reply to Maternal Surnames in Mexico by arturoramos

    Translation help

    Can someone tell me what this phrase means in a marriage record?

    "ha quienes no di las Bendiciones Nupciales por ser viudos"

    (Both were widow/widower)

    --
    Best regards,
    Stuart mailto:stuartarms@gmail.com

    Angelina Markle

    16 years 4 months ago

    Permalink

    In reply to Translation help by Stuart Armstrong

    Translation help

    I read it as "to whom I did not give nuptial blessings for being widowed"

    Someone else may have a better translation.

    -Angelina-

    -----Original Message-----
    From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
    [mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of Stuart
    Armstrong
    Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2009 10:19 AM
    To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
    Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Translation help

    Can someone tell me what this phrase means in a marriage record?

    "ha quienes no di las Bendiciones Nupciales por ser viudos"

    (Both were widow/widower)

    --
    Best regards,
    Stuart mailto:stuartarms@gmail.com

    RaquelRuiz

    16 years 4 months ago

    Permalink

    In reply to Translation help by Angelina Markle

    Translation help

    I translate it the same. But this is interesting. Has anyone noticed
    whether nuptial blessings are only given the first time round? Or is it
    only when it is the first marriage for the woman? I'lll have to go back
    and look at my records to check for a pattern but was wondering if someone
    already knows about this.

    On Sun, Apr 12, 2009 at 3:07 PM, Angelina Markle wrote:

    > I read it as "to whom I did not give nuptial blessings for being widowed"
    >
    > Someone else may have a better translation.
    >
    > -Angelina-
    >
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org
    > [mailto:research-bounces@lists.nuestrosranchos.org] On Behalf Of Stuart
    > Armstrong
    > Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2009 10:19 AM
    > To: research@nuestrosranchos.org
    > Subject: [Nuestros Ranchos] Translation help
    >
    > Can someone tell me what this phrase means in a marriage record?
    >
    > "ha quienes no di las Bendiciones Nupciales por ser viudos"
    >
    > (Both were widow/widower)
    >
    > --
    > Best regards,
    > Stuart mailto:stuartarms@gmail.com
    >

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